Revelation

D&C 68: 4: Whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, and shall be the will of the Lord.
Enoch
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Revelation

Post#1 » Mon May 11, 2015 1:02 am

Revelation:

When a man speaks scripture, then it is revelation from God.
D&C 1: 37-39:
37 Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.
38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
39 For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen.


D&C 68: 2-6:
2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth–
3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.
4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.
5 Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants.
6 Wherefore, be of good cheer, and do not fear, for I the Lord am with you, and will stand by you; and ye shall bear record of me, even Jesus Christ, that I am the Son of the living God, that I was, that I am, and that I am to come.


Revelation is being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak the words of God, to speak scripture.
Words of Howard Coray:

One morning I went as usual into the office to go to work. I found Joseph sitting on one side of a table and Robert B. Thompson on the opposite side, and the understanding I got was that they were hunting in the manuscript of the new translation of the Bible for something on priesthood which Joseph wished to present or have read to the people the next conference. Well, they could not find what they wanted, and Joseph said to Thompson, “Put the manuscript to one side and take some paper, and I will tell you what to write.”

Brother Thompson took some foolscap paper that was at his elbow and made himself ready for the business. I was seated probably six or eight feet on Joseph’s left side, so that I could look almost squarely into Joseph’s left eye — I mean the side of his eye. The Spirit of God descended upon him, and a measure of it upon me, insomuch that I could fully realize that God, or the Holy Ghost, was talking through him. I never, neither before or since, have felt as I did on that occasion. I felt so small and humble, I could have freely kissed his feet.


Now, that’s revelation!

Our job is to get to the point where we can sense or discern whenever the Holy Ghost is speaking through a person, and when that person is only speaking his own words. It doesn’t become scripture unless the Holy Ghost is actually speaking through the man.

I have had a couple of Latter-day Saints tell me that they have felt impressed to look up during a prayer; and, they actually saw a conduit of light coming from heaven into the man’s head while the man giving the prayer was speaking the Words of God under the influence of the Holy Ghost.

That’s revelation from God.
Elder M. Russell Ballard, “Marvelous Are the Revelations of the Lord”, Ensign (CR), May 1998, p.31:

These were incredible times, as the spirit of revelation moved powerfully upon the Prophet Joseph Smith. Often others were present with him when revelations were received, and they bore witness of the Spirit and the outward manifestations that were present on these occasions. Typically, they spoke of a whiteness or a brightness that surrounded Joseph. For example, as the 76th section of the Doctrine and Covenants was given, Philo Dibble wrote that Joseph “seemed to be dressed in an element of glorious white, and his face shone as if it were transparent.” And Brigham Young testified that “those who were acquainted with [Joseph] knew when the Spirit of revelation was upon him, for his countenance wore an expression peculiar to himself while under that influence. He preached by the Spirit of revelation, and taught in his council by it, and those who were acquainted with him could discover it at once, for at such times there was a peculiar clearness and transparency in his face.”

Some who shared in this marvelous revelatory experience were impressed with how smoothly these revelations from the Lord flowed, and how, except for minor corrections such as spelling or punctuation, they required no editing. Said Parley P. Pratt: “Each sentence was uttered slowly and very distinctly, and with a pause between each, sufficiently long for it to be recorded, by an ordinary writer, in long hand. There was never any hesitation, reviewing or reading back, in order to keep the run of the subject; neither did any of these communications undergo revisions, interlinings or corrections. As he dictated them so they stood, so far as I have witnessed; and I was present to witness the dictation of several communications of several pages each.”

Interestingly, it was those who knew Joseph best who were most astonished at this process. They understood more than anyone else the limitations of his formal education and natural ability. Consequently, they had the clearest view of the miraculous way God spoke through His living prophet.

Joseph’s wife Emma bore a testimony similar to Parley P. Pratt’s in that she continued to be amazed at the process through which revelations came. Years after the Prophet’s death she said: “I am satisfied that no man could have dictated the writing of the manuscripts unless he was inspired; for, when acting as his scribe, [Joseph] would dictate to me hour after hour; and when returning after meals, or after interruptions, he could at once begin where he had left off, without either seeing the manuscript or having any portion of it read to him.”

My dear brothers and sisters, do we appreciate the marvelous miracle of revelation? Through revelation we have received the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, which contain the words of God to us, His children. Oh, how marvelous are the revelations we have received from the Lord! I have often said either Joseph Smith was the Lord’s instrument by which the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ in its fulness was accomplished, or he was not. There is no possible compromise of this doctrine. I raise my voice to the whole world in testimony that I know without reservation or question that Joseph Smith opened this dispensation through divine revelation and began the restoration to the earth of the true Church of Jesus Christ.

Among the most marvelous of revelations ever given to man is the 76th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, often referred to simply as “The Vision.” This vision may have been one of the Prophet Joseph’s most powerful and significant spiritual experiences. As he and Sidney Rigdon prayed to understand the resurrection of the just and the unjust, this glorious vision – or actually a series of six visions – burst upon them. Joseph and Sidney literally conversed with the Lord for about an hour and a half as the Savior showed them what Joseph later described as “eternity sketch’d in a vision from God, / Of what was, and now is, and yet is to be.” As it commenced, the two men viewed the glory of the Son of God on the right hand of the Father and were moved to exclaim: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father.”

In sequence, Joseph and Sidney next saw Lucifer in the premortal world as he fell from the presence of God because of his rebellion. They then saw the sons of perdition and what will become of them in the eternal worlds. Next, they viewed visions of the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdoms, and they learned the requirements for attaining each of these kingdoms and the differences in glory of each respectively. They learned that those who qualify for celestial glory “shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.”

What a wondrous experience for the Prophet Joseph and Sidney. For more than an hour, the Lord showed them our premortal life, earth life, and life after death. As a result of that revelation, mankind’s understanding of Heavenly Father’s plan for our eternal happiness and peace was expanded and enhanced to a remarkable degree. Of course, it should be noted that Joseph was instructed not to record everything that he saw in vision. The Saints at the time were not prepared to receive all of the new information that he was given. But as we look at the Prophet’s later teachings, we see what appear to be bits and pieces of this great revelation being taught – here a little and there a little – as the Saints grew in their spiritual understanding.


When was the last time the Holy Ghost took control of you and started speaking through you? If you haven’t had that experience yet, then you haven’t experienced revelation in the same way that the Prophets of God experience it.

Others Saw Glory, Felt Power, But Did Not See Vision, LDS Church News, 1989, 04/22/89:

Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon were not alone when they received the vision recorded as D&C 76. One of those present was Philo Dibble, who wrote an account of the receiving of the revelation:

” . . . there were other men in the room, perhaps twelve, among whom I was one during a part of the time-probably two-thirds of the time,-I saw the glory and felt the power, but did not see the vision. . . .”

Dibble further wrote: “Joseph would, at intervals, say: ‘What do I see?’ as one might say while looking out the window and beholding that all in the room could not see. Then he would relate what he had seen or what he was looking at. Then Sidney replied, ‘I see the same.’ Presently Sidney would say ‘What do I see?’ and would repeat what he had seen or was seeing, and Joseph would reply, ‘I see the same.’

“This manner of conversation was repeated at short intervals to the end of the vision, and during the whole time not a word was spoken by any other person. Not a sound nor motion made by anyone but Joseph and Sidney, and it seemed to me that they never moved a joint or limb during the time I was there, which I think was over an hour, and to the end of the vision.

“Joseph sat firmly and calmly all the time in the midst of a magnificent glory, but Sidney sat limp and pale, apparently as limber as a rag, observing which, Joseph remarked, smilingly, ‘Sidney is not used to it as I am.’ ”

(Juvenile Instructor 27:303-304, as quoted in The Doctrine and Covenants Speaks, 2:12.)


This explains in part what is truly happening whenever a person receives a revelation from God or speaks while being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak the Word of God.

Enoch

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Re: Revelation

Post#2 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:55 pm

Here's a link to something similar to what I have been told by Latter-day Saints, who have seen the conduit of light from heaven entering into the mind or soul of a person who is receiving revelation from God.

http://www.elliaison.org/forum/index.ph ... 148d3cf5b7


Seeing a God for the First Time:

From my perception I thought I saw an angel who was extremely bright, but after many discussions with my missionary companion, I realized it was a God. From this experience I learned that I had many experiences speaking with angels prior to this point, I just didn't realize that I was actually talking to angels or even Gods.

This first experience was when I inadvertently "Dropped In" or "Eves Dropped" on a prayer and subsequent revelation my missionary companion was receiving.

We were serving in the Ireland Dublin mission. My senior companion and I were both inquisitive and filled with the spirit. We worked hard, prayed sincerely, studied like crazy and were constantly having amazing revelations. It was truly a highlight of both of our missions.

One morning I woke up very sick. I thought it was an allergic reaction because I was rarely contagious and had experienced sever allergies to pollens my entire youth. I had been sick quite often and only realized years later that I was experiencing allergic reactions to the food I was eating. By sick, I mean flu like symptoms, runny nose, watery eyes, etc.

On this particular day I was determined to go out and work. I was tired of wasting my service time studying, resting and not working. My companion humored me knowing that I looked like I had the plague. With a pocket full of handkerchiefs and a prayer we headed out to knock doors.

I laugh at the thought of what I looked like from the other side of the door with my red running eyes, and stuffed up voice trying desperately to compose myself. Heaven help me, I tried, but I just couldn't do it.

I finally gave up when between houses I sneezed so hard into my handkerchief that the pressure from the sneeze caused mucus to shoot from my sinus cavity out my the corner of my eye. It felt and looked so wired. To this day it seems so weird that I had to look it up and found that everyone has a hole in the corner of their eyelid called a "puncta lacrimalia" which moves excess tears from the eye to the nasal cavity. This is what causes the runny nose when we cry. I had sneezed so hard that the pressure caused the mucus in my nose to go backward through this hole and out my eye and about 3 feet away.

My companion saw it too, and we were both shocked and grossed out, as I am sure you are now, hehehe. At this point I decided that I was too sick to work and we went back to our "flat" which was a small two story town house.

The bottom floor included the front door which led through a small hall past a coat closet to the right front side of the main room. On the back left of the main room was the door to the bathroom and to the back right was a doorway (no door) to the small kitchen. On the right front of the main room was a staircase to the second floor which ascended up to a small room which was over the coat closet and entry hallway. In this room there was a wardrobe and enough room for our suit cases. At the end of the small room was a door that led to the bedroom which had 2 twin sized beds and a window. It was a very small cramped flat.

When we got home I went to upstairs to bed and slept soundly. My companion stayed down stairs, fiddled around got some food and then studied for a while.

With that background we are now at a cross road in the story as what I experienced is only half of the story. The other half is the experience of my companion.

Together we support and validate each others experience from our own point of view. While writing this I wanted to ensure as best as possible that I reporting to you everything correctly, so I called my previous companion, who has remained my close friend these many years, and we discussed the experience together and verified what we remember with journal entries.

My Companion's Experience/Viewpoint:
At some point during his study session he felt a very strong desire to learn more about the doctrine of making his calling and election sure. Not general information, but what he specifically needed to do to receive this blessing for himself. (Not general qualifications which everyone needs to do, but what HE needed to do himself from where he was right at that moment.)

He knelt down in the center of the main room and began to pray. In response to his prayer he received a detailed and lengthy revelation. It was very powerful. He tried to write down the entire revelation as best he could but was unable to remember all the details and points.

Eventually, after recording what he could remember and giving up on the rest, he finished up and came up stairs for bed. After dressing for bed in the small room between the stairs and the bedroom, he quietly opened the door and walked in.

I, still laying down and physically unconscious, without moving anything except my mouth said to him, "That was the most beautiful thing I have ever heard!"

My companion asked, "What?"

I replied, still physically unconscious, "Someone's prayer was just answered and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever heard!"

My companion thinking to himself, "I just had my prayer answered, this is weird," asked me, "What did you hear?"

I began to tell him what I heard which he immediately recognized as being the revelation he had just received. My companion was astonished and began to naturally ask clarifying questions. We reviewed the revelation in some detail for about 5 minutes while my companion wrote in his journal those things which he had forgotten. He found that I had heard the entire revelation. I then began to slur in response to his questions and went back to sleep.

I slept for around 15 minutes. When I woke up, I was wide awake and full of energy. With bright eyes and cheerful disposition I asked, "what's up?"

He said, "You don't remember do you?"

I paused for a moment wondering what he was talking about and immediately remembered everything, (except for the detailed points of the revelation which were specific to him). It surprised even me. I realized immediately that if he had not said anything I wouldn't have even tried to remember and it would have simply and naturally faded in my mind as if it had never happened. I also wondered how many times I had experienced similar things and had not noticed or forgotten. (I came to understand later in life that people have great experiences like this often and often forget or they are hidden from our conscious minds.)

My Experience/View Point:
While I was lying in bed physically asleep I was spiritually awake, kind of like being hypnotized or in deep meditation. In this state I was aware of not only the room I was in, but also the entire house. I could see through the floors and walls as if they were transparent although I was aware that they were there. This felt very natural and normal to me as if it was no big deal. I watched my companion through the floor below me as he fiddled around, when to the kitchen, studied and eventually knelt down in the center of the main room down stairs and began praying. I was aware of his physical location in relation to me, (down and forward from me as I slept).

While he prayed a glorious bright white pillar or conduit of light radiated diagonally down past me to him. I looked and saw the source of the light which was a glorious being whom I assumed was an angel whose detailed features were hidden by the incredible white light radiating from him. He appeared behind my head and above me, outside the front walls of the house floating in the air, (roughly 3 stories above the ground).

The angel/being began to talk with my companion in response to his prayer. He communicated without speaking words using the bright conduit of light that proceeded from the angel, through the walls and floor past me to my companion. The light surrounded and filled both the angel and him.

The revelation was carried from the angel, past me to my companion through this conduit of pure light. I heard the entire revelation and it was beautiful. I could no longer remember the details of the revelation which were very specific and personal to my companion.

After the prayer had been answered, the light conduit dissipated and I could no longer see the angel/being. I could still see my companion as he wrote in his journal for a while then tidied up, turned out the lights and came up the stairs. I saw him getting ready for bed and finally quietly opening the door to the bedroom. I was so overcome by the beautiful revelation and experience that I had to express it. As soon as he walked in the door I spoke to him as if I were wide awake thinking nothing odd was occurring, "That was the most beautiful thing I have ever heard!"

My companion asked, "What?"

I replied, somehow not making the obvious connection that it was his prayer that had been answered I said, "Someone's prayer was just answered and it was the most beautiful thing I have ever heard!"

The remainder of the discussion with my companion remains fuzzy. The next thing I knew was that I was wide awake and had just been talking with my companion about something but wasn't sure where we left off or even what we were talking about. I felt like I had missed something so, I asked, "What's up?" to which my companion responded, "You don't remember do you?"

I paused for a moment wondering what he was talking about and immediately remembered almost everything, except for the detailed points of the revelation. It surprised even me. I realized immediately that if he had not said anything I wouldn't have even tried to remember and it would have simply and naturally faded in my mind as if it had never happened. I also wondered how many times I had experienced similar things and had not noticed or forgotten.

The Rest of the Story
We began to discuss what happened and realized that we both experienced it and could validate each other's experience.

Not long into the discussion my companion asked me how I felt. I hadn't even given it any thought, but after a brief self assessment I reported that I felt better than I have in a very long time. He then told me that he had also asked in his prayer that I be healed and was promised that I would be. And it was miraculously fulfilled.

We finished asking each other questions and wrote in our journals regarding the experience before finally going to bed.

This experience was very powerful not only because of the spiritual nature of the experience, but because of the validation we had as a natural result of the mutual experience.

At the time I thought it was an angel as I could not comprehend seeing a God. And I wasn't rude enough to interrupt the conversation to ask the being for his ID card and level of progression. Only recently after having many discussions with my companion he convinced me that he was praying to and speaking with God. And that God responded to him and that what I saw was the God that he prayed to who answers his prayers. He has a very good relationship with God, now more than ever, and with his frequent interactions with God, recognizes His voice today as the same voice and presence that answered his prayer that evening.

In addition, I finally acknowledged that I have never seen angels with so much light radiating from them. The verdict is still out as to which God I saw, (Father, Son or Holy Ghost).

Later that night while I slept, he was attacked by his, "Dweller". After casting him out in the name of Jesus Christ, the room became bright. He sat up in bed and saw Christ standing at the foot of his bed. He was filled from toe to head with light as if by fire. And was given his calling and election made sure.

Christ departed and the room became dark again and my companion went straight back to sleep.


Over the years following this event, my mission companion and I have revisited this experience a number of times. The information gained by knowing both view points has been invaluable in learning to recognize and visit with other ministering angels as well as piercing the veil to communicate with lost loved ones.


I have no direct connection to this experience, because I am not the missionary nor the companion spoken of in this story.

However, I have read accounts of people who have seen the conduit of light from heaven resting upon a person while he is receiving revelation from God. I have also had a Latter-day Saint tell me that while his mind was wandering during a priesthood blessing, the Spirit interrupted his day-dreaming, told him to open his eyes and look and pay attention. When he opened his eyes, he could see the conduit of light entering into the Stake President who was giving the blessing, and he knew that the Stake President was being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak scripture and to prophesy of future events.

True revelation from God is often double-blind. In other words, there are witnesses. There are others there who are also receiving the same revelation at the exact same time that the prophet or ministrator is receiving the revelation. I have encountered Latter-day Saints who have experienced miracles or revelations, and they each experience the same revelation or warning at the same time, even though they live in different parts of the state or world. The Lord often leaves witnesses, a signature of His intervention on our behalf.

Critics and LDS Apostates love to make the claim that there is no revelation in the LDS Church and that the Apostles are no longer receiving revelations, visions, or prophesying. This simply is not true.

Yes, it is true that the critics and LDS Apostates are not receiving revelation from God, and they are completely unable to recognize when a prophet is being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak scripture, to give revelations, and to prophesy.

The LDS Apostates that I have listened to are speaking correctly whenever they say that they aren't sensing any revelation or prophecy from the Apostles and LDS General Authorities, because the apostates wouldn't be able to recognize a revelation from God if it came up to them and bit them. The gift of the Holy Ghost has been taken away from them.

However, they are lying and deceiving themselves whenever they make the claim that the Apostles and LDS General Authorities are not prophets, seers, and revelators and thus not receiving revelation. Why? Because many Latter-day Saints have actually been able to see the conduit of light from the Holy Ghost when these prophets, seers, and revelators are receiving revelation from God. Furthermore, most active Latter-day Saints can sense when the prophets, seers, and revelators are being moved upon to speak scripture because the Holy Ghost is simultaneously moving on these Latter-day Saints to confirm the truth of the prophecy, vision, or revelation from God.

It's only natural that the rebellious, unbelievers, sinners, and the LDS Apostates should be receiving no revelation of any kind from the Apostles of Christ and from their LDS leaders local and general, because the apostates don't personally sustain these men as the prophets, seers, and revelators that they really are.

You are not going to be able to receive revelation from these men or through these men, unless you are willing to sustain them and accept them as Prophets of God. The apostates aren't willing to do so, and therefore the apostates are completely unable to sense whenever a person is being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to give revelation and scripture. They can't sense it, because they don't want it and are not willing to accept it or receive it. They are not approaching it with real intent -- truly intending to do whatever the revelation tells them to do. The apostates have no intention whatsoever of following the revelations and commandments that are given to them by the Prophets of God; and thus, the apostates will be unable to sense revelation from God in any form, including revelations through the Prophets of God. Instead, the apostates will often make the claim that there is no revelation from God in our day and time. For them, that is true. But it is a lie, where God and the active Latter-day Saints are concerned.


Enoch
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Re: Revelation

Post#3 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:03 pm

Double-Blind Revelation:

When President Ezra Taft Benson counseled other General Authorities about serving in the Church, he often said, “Remember, Brethren, in this work it is the Spirit that counts.” And when he and these brethren ministered together, he taught this principle by example, showing that the Lord “is close to His servants, even within whispering distance.” Elder Robert D. Hales of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles told of a time when he accompanied President Benson to a stake conference in which a new stake president would be called:

“After praying, interviewing, studying, and praying again, Elder Benson asked if I knew who the new president would be. I said I had not received that inspiration yet. He looked at me for a long time and replied he hadn’t either. However, we were inspired to ask three worthy priesthood holders to speak in the Saturday evening session of conference. Moments after the third speaker began, the Spirit prompted me that he should be the new stake president. I looked over at President Benson and saw tears streaming down his face. Revelation had been given to both of us—but only by continuing to seek our Heavenly Father’s will as we moved forward in faith.”

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-of ... o?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

Enoch
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Re: Revelation

Post#4 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:08 pm

Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets.
by Robert D. Hales:


As we begin the concluding session of this historic conference, I join you in expressing gratitude for the privilege of sustaining President Henry B. Eyring as a counselor in the First Presidency, Elder Quentin L. Cook in the Quorum of the Twelve, and Elder Walter F. González in the seven Presidents of the Seventy. I offer them my love and support and testify that they are called of God by a living prophet, President Gordon B. Hinckley, “according to the spirit of revelation and prophecy.” (1)

The events of these past two days teach us the need for revelation in the Lord’s work and personal revelation in our own lives. Personal revelation is the way we know for ourselves the most important truths of our existence: the living reality of God, our Eternal Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ; the truthfulness of the restored gospel; and God’s purpose and direction for us.

Much of what I know about personal revelation I have learned from the examples of the prophets, both ancient and modern. This afternoon I would like to share a few of these personal examples and pray that they will inspire each of us to seek the blessings of personal revelation in our own lives.

As a young regional representative, I was assigned to assist Elder Marion G. Romney in reorganizing a stake. During the long, quiet ride to the conference, our conversation turned to the spiritual dimensions of our assignment. Elder Romney taught me about how the Lord blesses us with revelation. “Robert,” he said, “I have learned that when we are on the Lord’s errand, we have His blessings to accomplish whatever we are asked to do.” Elder Romney further explained that we would arrive in the distant city, kneel in prayer, interview priesthood holders, kneel in prayer again, and the Holy Ghost would reveal to us the person whom the Lord had chosen to be the new stake president. He promised me it would be one of the great spiritual experiences of my life, and it was.

Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (2) How do we know the Father and the Son for ourselves? By personal revelation. Personal revelation is the way Heavenly Father helps us know Him and His Son, learn and live the gospel, endure to the end in righteousness, and qualify for eternal life—to return back into Their presence.

You may ask, “How do we seek personal revelation?” Paul counseled the Saints to rely on the Spirit rather than the wisdom of the world. (3) To obtain that Spirit, we begin with prayer. President Lorenzo Snow had studied the gospel for several years before joining the Church. But he did not receive a witness until two or three weeks after his baptism when he retired in secret prayer. “The Spirit of God descended upon me,” he said. “O, the joy and happiness I felt, [for] I then received a perfect knowledge that God lives, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and of the restoration of the holy Priesthood, and the fulness of the Gospel.” (4)

I have learned that prayer provides a firm foundation for personal revelation. But more is required. While still a regional representative, I had the opportunity to learn from another Apostle, Elder Boyd K. Packer. We were assigned to reorganize a stake and began by kneeling in prayer together. After interviewing priesthood leaders and having prayer, Elder Packer suggested that we walk around the building together. As we walked, he demonstrated a vital principle of seeking personal revelation—the principle the Lord taught Oliver Cowdery: “Behold, … you must study it out in your mind.” (5) We pondered our assignment, counseled together, and listened to the voice of the Spirit. When we went back, we prayed and studied further, and then we were prepared to receive revelation.

Revelation comes on the Lord’s timetable, which often means we must move forward in faith, even though we haven’t received all the answers we desire. As a General Authority, I was assigned to help reorganize a stake presidency under the direction of Elder Ezra Taft Benson. After praying, interviewing, studying, and praying again, Elder Benson asked if I knew who the new president would be. I said I had not received that inspiration yet. He looked at me for a long time and replied he hadn’t either. However, we were inspired to ask three worthy priesthood holders to speak in the Saturday evening session of conference. Moments after the third speaker began, the Spirit prompted me that he should be the new stake president. I looked over at President Benson and saw tears streaming down his face. Revelation had been given to both of us — but only by continuing to seek our Heavenly Father’s will as we moved forward in faith.

Early in my Church service, Elder Harold B. Lee taught this lesson when he came to organize a new stake in the district where we were living. Elder Lee asked me, as a newly sustained bishop, if I would join him at a press conference. There, an intense young reporter challenged Elder Lee. He said to him, “You call yourself a prophet. When was the last time you had revelation, and what was it about?” Elder Lee paused, looked directly at him, and responded in a sweet way, “It was yesterday afternoon about three o’clock. We were praying about who should be called as the president of the new stake, and it was made known to us who that individual should be.” The reporter’s heart changed. I will never forget the Spirit that came into that room as Elder Lee bore his powerful witness of revelation that can be received by those faithfully seeking to do the Lord’s will.

As faithful children, youth, parents, teachers, and leaders, we may receive personal revelation more frequently than we realize. The more we receive and acknowledge personal revelation, the more our testimonies grow. As a bishop, my testimony grew each time I received revelation to extend callings to ward members. That testimony has been strengthened each time I witness General Authorities and officers, Area Seventies, and stake presidents called or given new assignments. More importantly, I am strengthened by the personal revelations I receive in my role as a son of God, a husband, and a father. I am so thankful for the guidance and direction of the Spirit in our home as we seek for direction in family matters.

For all of us, our personal revelations reflect the pattern of revelation received by prophets, as recounted in the scriptures. Adam and Eve called upon the name of the Lord and received personal revelation, including knowledge of the Savior. (6) Enoch, Abraham, and Moses sought for the welfare of their people and were given marvelous revelations recorded in the Pearl of Great Price. (7) Elijah’s personal revelation came through the still, small voice; (8) Daniel’s came in a dream. (9) Peter’s personal revelation gave him a testimony that Jesus is the Christ. (10) Lehi and Nephi received revelations about the Savior and the plan of salvation, and virtually all of the Bible and Book of Mormon prophets received revelations to warn, teach, strengthen, and comfort them and their people. (11) After much prayer in the temple, President Spencer W. Kimball received the revelation on the priesthood. (12) And after praying about providing temple blessings to more members of the Church, President Hinckley received revelation about the building of smaller temples. (13)

Prophets receive personal revelations to help them in their own lives and in directing the earthly affairs of the Church. Our responsibility is to seek personal revelations for ourselves and for the responsibilities the Lord has given us.

These past weeks President Hinckley has been seeking revelation about the callings that would be announced in this conference. About a month ago in our Thursday temple meeting of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, I listened as President Hinckley offered a simple, sincere prayer for spiritual guidance. The answer to his heartfelt prayer has now been presented to all of us.

Do we see the pattern of revelation in the lives of prophets? Are the threads of that pattern also woven through our lives?

We know that the pattern centers on the Atonement. (14) We receive the blessings of the Atonement when we repent of our sins and keep the commandments. This we covenanted to do when we were baptized, and we renew that covenant each week as we partake of the sacrament. As we continue in righteousness, we qualify ourselves to say with Samuel, “Speak, [Lord]; for thy servant heareth.” (15) And the Lord answers, “Blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.” (16)

We prepare to receive personal revelation as the prophets do, by studying the scriptures, fasting, praying, and building faith. Faith is the key. Remember Joseph’s preparation for the First Vision:

“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God. …

“But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.” (17)

By unwavering faith, we learn for ourselves that “it is by faith that miracles are wrought.” (18)

Generally, those miracles will not be physical demonstrations of God’s power — parting of the Red Sea, raising of the dead, breaking down prison walls, or the appearance of heavenly messengers. By design, most miracles are spiritual demonstrations of God’s power — tender mercies gently bestowed through impressions, ideas, feelings of assurance, solutions to problems, strength to meet challenges, and comfort to bear disappointments and sorrow.

These miracles come to us as we endure what the scriptures call a “trial of [our] faith.” (19) Sometimes that trial is the time it takes before an answer is received. When President David O. McKay was a young man herding cattle, he sought a witness, but it did not come until many years later while serving his mission in Scotland. He wrote, “It was a manifestation for which as a doubting youth I had secretly prayed … on hillside and in meadow. It was an assurance to me that sincere prayer is answered ‘sometime, somewhere.’” (20)

The answer may be “Not now—be patient and wait.”

I testify that on the hillside or the meadow, in the grove or closet, now or in the eternities to come, the Savior’s words to each of us will be fulfilled: “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.” (21) While we are commanded not to seek after signs, we are commanded to “seek … earnestly the best gifts.” (22) These gifts include the Holy Ghost and personal revelation. That revelation will come “line upon line, precept upon precept,” as the Savior said, and “unto him that receiveth [the Lord] will give more.” (23)

As we go forth from this conference, I call upon each of us to seek more and receive more of the Spirit of God. The Savior prayed that His disciples in the New World would receive that Spirit. Then, as an example to all of us, He departed from His disciples and in prayer thanked His Heavenly Father for bestowing it. (24) Let us follow His example and pray for the Spirit of God, giving thanks for its marvelous blessings in our lives.

I bear my special witness that Jesus Christ lives and leads His Church through a living prophet, President Gordon B. Hinckley. I know—I know—that President Hinckley leads this Church by revelation. In the words of Alma, “Behold, I say unto you [these things] are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days. … And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me … ; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me.” (25)

That each of us may receive that Spirit, obtain the blessings of personal revelation, and know for ourselves that these things are true is my heartfelt prayer in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

1. Alma 8:24.
2. John 17:3.
3. See 1 Corinthians 2:11–16.
4. Quoted in Eliza R. Snow Smith, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow (1884), 8.
5. D&C 9:8.
6. See Moses 5:4–11.
7. See Genesis 18:23–33; Exodus 3:1–3; 32:31–33; Moses 1:1–2, 24; 6:26–37; 7:2–4; Abraham 1:1–2, 15–19.
8. See 1 Kings 19:11–12.
9. See Daniel 2:16–20.
10. See Matthew 16:15–17.
11. See 1 Nephi 2:16; 11:1–2; for additional examples, see Mosiah 3:1–4; Alma 43:23; Helaman 7–8; 10:2–4; 3 Nephi 1:10–13; Mormon 8:34–35; Ether 3:1–6, 13–14, 25.
12. See “Letter of the First Presidency Regarding Revelation on the Priesthood,” Tambuli, July 1978, 31; “Revelation on Priesthood Accepted, Church Officers Sustained,” Ensign, Nov. 1978, 16.
13. See “Some Thoughts on Temples, Retention of Converts, and Missionary Service,” Ensign, Nov. 1997, 49.
14. See Acts 9; Mosiah 27; Alma 36.
15. 1 Samuel 3:10.
16. Matthew 13:16.
17. James 1:5–6.
18. Moroni 7:37.
19. Ether 12:6.
20. Quoted in Francis M. Gibbons, David O. McKay: Apostle to the World, Prophet of God (1986), 50.
21. Matthew 7:7; Luke 11:9; see also 3 Nephi 14:7.
22. D&C 46:8.
23. 2 Nephi 28:30.
24. See 3 Nephi 19:19–23.
25. Alma 5:46.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

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Re: Revelation

Post#5 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:13 pm

I wanted to expose what revelation from God really is, so that we each can more clearly and easily sense when we are receiving revelation and when we are not.

Most of the time, in my own life, it's inspiration and not revelation.

There have only been a few times in my life when I have been moved upon by the Holy Ghost and actually been given revelation or a vision, where I was told things that were impossible to know yet proved to be true.

It can and does happen if you are a Latter-day Saint, living right, partaking of the sacrament worthily, performing your duty or calling in the church, and sustaining the Brethren in their callings.

Notice that the Apostles (and Stake Presidents and Bishops) receive revelation from God while attempting to fulfill their assigned duties. The Apostles are told who the next Stake President is supposed to be, and that prophecy comes true when the person accepts the calling and becomes the next Stake President. It doesn't have to be sensational. It just has to work. Notice that the Lord sends them out in two's, so that there are witnesses to the revelation from God. There are the two Apostles who receive the revelation; and there is at least a third witness, the newly minted Stake President who also receives a confirmation or revelation of some kind that he is supposed to accept the call.

A revelation from God comes to multiple Latter-day Saints simultaneously. They each receive the same revelation, all at the same time. That's revelation!

The Spirit of God unites people. The purpose of the Gift of the Holy Ghost is to bring us to a unity of the faith, to bring us all to the exact same revelation.

==

Editorial Note:

This thread got hijacked by the conversation between Brian Mecham and Darwin Bagley. I have chosen to continue with the original theme at this particular thread:

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=271

Enoch

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Re: Revelation

Post#6 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:21 am

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims to be Christ's own church with Jesus Christ at the helm. The LDS Church claims to be a church of continuing revelation.

That means that one should be looking for revelation [for the times when men and women are being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak scripture] from the LDS General Authorities, Stake Presidents, Mormon Missionaries, LDS Bishops, and ordinary rank and file church members.

There is revelation from God taking place all the time within the LDS Church among its membership, the Latter-day Saints. If you are not able to sense it, then that means that there is something missing within you that is preventing you from feeling it and sensing it. The revelations from God are there in the LDS Church. The question is whether you can feel it and sense it when they come.

Lord, is it I? Am I the reason why I'm not feeling and sensing revelations from you through your prophets and leaders?

Ever since the Gospel of Jesus Christ was restored through Joseph Smith in 1830, the heavenly broadcast has been there. The task for each one of us is to learn how to get in tune with it.

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Re: Revelation

Post#7 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:52 pm

Brian Mecham has been open with me in the past discussing various concerns, so I thought I would be open with him:


BrianM wrote:
Just got done listening to it.

Elder Dallin H. Oaks said that "these teachings are true (the teachings from the meeting) and if we hold with and follow the current leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints , we will stay on the path toward eternal life.."

Question: What if the teachings of the current leaders contradict the past leaders?


To Brian Mecham:

I know from first-hand experience that it is possible for a person to lose the ability to sense when scripture or revelation is being spoken. I thought I was immune, but nobody is immune to such a thing. I lost the ability to sense when someone was being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak scripture.

I lost that ability for three years. When I was addicted to prescription drugs, and then later when I was going through withdrawal, I completely lost the ability to sense or discern when scripture was being spoken by the Latter-day Saints. At the time, I was getting my revelations from Satan instead, and revelations from Satan feel exactly like revelations from the Holy Ghost. That's what I learned by the experience. So, how do you tell the difference between the two?

By their fruits, ye shall know them.

The revelations from Satan were telling me to quit the LDS Church, that God does not exist, that I should kill myself, that I should burn down the house, that I should throw myself down the stairs, that there is no such thing as prophets of God. These are exactly the kinds of revelations that the apostates receive from Satan -- they are destructive in nature, rather than being edifying or uplifting. Simple! Satanic revelations lead us away from the Church of Jesus Christ and the prophets of God.

BrianM wrote: "Off the top of my head I'm having a hard time coming up with anyone alive today that I would consider to be a prophet."

Brian, for the past decade you have admitted into your living room and into your life hundreds of apostates who have lost the testimony of Jesus Christ and the ability to sense when people are being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak scripture. By giving precedence to their teachings and words over the words of the Prophets of God, you have lost your ability to sense when people are being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to give you scripture.

In every Gospel Dispensation, the anti-Christ's and false prophets are against the Church of Jesus Christ and its prophets. That's what it means to be anti-Christ. To be anti-Christ is to take a stand against the Church of Jesus Christ, the Saving Ordinances, and the true prophets of God. That is anti-Christ. That is Satanic. In this thread and in many more on this board, there are anti-Christ's who are providing exactly this sort of message to you, and you are siding with them and buying into their words.

In this thread, some of the anti-Christ's are seeking for a sign. Joseph Smith, the Savior, and the scriptures teach us that adulterers will always seek for a sign. One of the first things that happens with adultery is that the adulterer loses the spirit of God. A year ago on this forum, we had a newly excommunicated Latter-day Saint telling us that he was a convicted pedophile, and that the voice of God had told him that one of the false prophets championed on this board is the only true prophet on the planet right now. Think about it. Here we have an excommunicated pedophile telling us that he is getting revelations from God letting him know that the LDS Apostles are false prophets. Where do you think his revelation and the voice really came from? It's not going to come from God. So, what are your other choices?

One person up above admits that it has been 40 years since he last felt or sensed any of the LDS General Authorities being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak scripture. 40 years since that person was last able to sense the Holy Ghost and sense scripture when it was being spoken by the Prophets of God. And, this is the type of person that you turn to for your input and evidence regarding spiritual things. This is the type of person that you side with in a debate.

Apostasy, in every Gospel Dispensation, is indeed when a person turns against the Church of Jesus Christ and its prophets. In this thread, you have people trying to change the definition of apostasy. They are apostate, and they wouldn't be able to sense or recognize the Holy Ghost if it were to come up to them and hit them on the head with a stick. They are past feeling. Some of them have been past feeling for decades. 40 years! That's a long time to be without the influence of the Holy Ghost.

These apostates try to put the burden of proof onto the LDS Apostles, and these apostates ask us to provide proof that the LDS Apostles are receiving revelations and speaking scripture. Alas, these apostates are overlooking one very important thing. The burden of proof is NOT on the Apostles of Christ, but it is upon these apostates. This is how it really works. When was the last time you were able to sense the Holy Ghost when it moved upon a man and spoke scripture through a man? When was the last time that the Holy Ghost moved on you and simultaneously gave you the exact same revelation that it gave to someone else sitting next to you? When was the last time you were able to discern when an LDS Apostle was speaking Scripture to you, or simply speaking as a man? There's a difference between the two. When was the last time you were able to tell the difference?

I lost the ability to discern scripture or to sense the Holy Ghost. I lost it for three years. It was taken away from me. In fact, I was afraid of the LDS Apostles, and I was afraid of the LDS Scriptures. I couldn't look at these things, read them, or listen to them. I was afraid of them. I couldn't sense the Holy Ghost moving upon a person to speak scripture. I couldn't even sense scriptures in the LDS Scriptures, the canonized scriptures, as being scripture. There was no Holy Ghost backing any of it. There are people just like that on this forum, and you are taking spiritual guidance from them. No wonder you can't sense the difference between the true prophets and the false prophets. That ability has been taken away from you, just like it was taken away from me.

Many of the people in this thread are in the exact same boat. They are completely unable to recognize revelation from God when it comes. Some of the people on this forum are making the claim that there has been no revelation for the past 40 years, or for the past 150 years. It is true that these apostates, like me, have been unable to sense revelation from the Apostles of God; but, that does not mean that the active Latter-day Saints are unable to sense revelation from their bishop, stake president, home-teacher, quorum instructor, or the LDS General Authorities. The active Latter-day Saints have told me that they sense this kind of stuff all the time.

I have asked some of these active Latter-day Saints when was the last time they were able to sense one of the LDS General Authorities being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak scripture, and they will tell me, "Just now, or just five minutes ago." In contrast, the apostates wouldn't recognize a revelation from the Holy Ghost even if they were to see the conduit of light from heaven coming into the man while the man is speaking scripture by the power of the Holy Ghost. The pedophile couldn't tell that the voice he heard was from Satan.

The Holy Ghost is a unifier. The goal is to get to the point where we all are receiving the exact same revelation. The Holy Ghost reveals truth, which means that if we are each truly being moved upon by the Holy Ghost, then we each will be receiving the exact same revelation simultaneously.

When was the last time you received revelation from the Holy Ghost? Have you experienced the double-blind revelation that the Holy Ghost tends to give? Would you even recognize a revelation if you were given one?


Double-Blind Revelation:

When President Ezra Taft Benson counseled other General Authorities about serving in the Church, he often said, “Remember, Brethren, in this work it is the Spirit that counts.” And when he and these brethren ministered together, he taught this principle by example, showing that the Lord “is close to His servants, even within whispering distance.” Elder Robert D. Hales of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles told of a time when he accompanied President Benson to a stake conference in which a new stake president would be called:

“After praying, interviewing, studying, and praying again, Elder Benson asked if I knew who the new president would be. I said I had not received that inspiration yet. He looked at me for a long time and replied he hadn’t either. However, we were inspired to ask three worthy priesthood holders to speak in the Saturday evening session of conference. Moments after the third speaker began, the Spirit prompted me that he should be the new stake president. I looked over at President Benson and saw tears streaming down his face. Revelation had been given to both of us—but only by continuing to seek our Heavenly Father’s will as we moved forward in faith.”



There are dozens and even hundreds of such revelations taking place in the LDS Church every year. The Lord sends these Apostles and Seventies out as missionary pairs to select the next president of a Stake. The prophets go into the situation blind. Yet, over and over again, they each receive a revelation from the Holy Ghost telling them who the next stake president is to be, and the Holy Ghost moves on both prophets and gives them the exact same revelation at the exact same time. It's double blind. It's revelation. That's what it truly means to receive revelation.

If you are truly receiving revelation from the Holy Ghost, there will be other Latter-day Saints present who will receive the exact same revelation. It's community revelation or simultaneous revelation. Salvation is a community affair. Zion is a community affair. Everyone present is being moved upon by the Holy Ghost, including the mouthpiece. Active Latter-day Saints experience such things during conference, where thousands of Latter-day Saints are simultaneously moved upon by the Holy Ghost to receive the exact same revelation or scripture. In contrast, the apostates experience no such thing, and thus confidently make the claim that there has been no revelation in the LDS Church for the past 40 years, or the past 150 years. These apostates are telling the truth, because for them there has been no revelation from God. But, it's a completely different story for the Latter-day Saints who are experiencing the revelations from God on a daily basis.

Pick your favorite apostate and then ask a simple question. Is there anyone on the planet who has been converted or guided to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by that person? If so, are they still members of the LDS Church?

In contrast, is there anyone on the planet who has been converted or guided to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by Thomas S. Monson? If so, are they still members of the LDS Church?

By their fruits, ye shall know them.

The anti-Christ's in every Gospel Dispensation lead people away from the Church of Jesus Christ. They are anti the Church of Jesus Christ and its Prophets.

The true prophets of God in every Gospel Dispensation lead people to the Church of Jesus Christ and the Saving Ordinances. It's a very simply yet powerful test!

That's the reality of the situation. So, whom are you going to choose to listen to, follow, and believe? The choice is yours.

We try to take up some of this here in this thread, discussing what it is really like to receive revelation from the Holy Ghost. If any of this interests you, then take a look.
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=159

Otherwise, continue to listen to the message that the apostates and Satan have to share with you. After all, it has been 40 years since some of them last recognized the Holy Ghost within the speeches of the Apostles of God. After 40 years of no revelation in their lives from the Prophets of God, they have got to be an expert on it by now.


Code: Select all

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39040&p=618296#p618296


This post got deleted from LDS Freedom Forum, and it looks like I was banned once again from LDS Freedom Forum. I guess Brian Mecham didn't find my message (or answer to his questions) useful after all. It might be the most thorough answer he has gotten to any of his questions in awhile. I was hoping it would have done him some good and have been of help. I wouldn't have taken hours writing it, otherwise.


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Re: Revelation

Post#8 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:36 pm

Brian Mecham replied to my post in an email to me. Obviously, I can't communicate with him through PM on his forum, because I have been banned again; but, I am able to converse with him through email.

Brian still contends that he is being misunderstood and that we have drawn many false conclusions about him. He seemed to be asking me for a chance to explain his side of things. It's a reasonable request, in my humble opinion.

Here are quotes of what he wrote to me, what I believe that he wants to say to all of us.

Brian Mecham wrote:
"It amazes me the things people come up with. That thread is full of libelous information about me. They have no idea what's really in my head or heart - they pick at little pieces of information and form all kinds of false conclusions. It's unfortunate, however, I also understand the concerns they are expressing. They don't understand how wrong they are about me - nor do you."


Brian Mecham also wrote:
"If you want to judge me based on what I post online take a look at what I've published here: http://www.latterdayconservative.com/ -- unlike a discussion forum where people are posting all kinds of things I don't agree with, latterdayconservative.com contains only information I do agree with (well, an exception would be that I don't agree with everything said in the meeting recordings that I have made available to download). I wouldn't post content from President Monson, Hinckley, current Apostles and past Church leaders if I had the issues that 'ldsfriendsandfun' claim I do. I do believe the LDS Church is the Lord's church and I have no intentions of leaving it.
On that ldsfriendsandfun thread with all the false information about me the only ones that I noticed who tried even a little bit to defend me are the only people who have directly talked to me -- no one else made any attempt to even try to understand my side of things or even find out what I am doing about the issues on LDSFF.
I wish you well and would hope that before you post anything else about me publicly you will at least try to understand my side of things. You know how to get in contact with me. God be with you."


There you go -- his words, and his side of things, as requested of me.

Respectfully,

Darwin Bagley

P.S. Here's a link to the "libelous" thread that Brian Mecham was talking about.
http://ldsfriendsandfun.freeforums.org/ ... t1045.html
There are quotes from Brian Mecham in that thread which led me to write the letter to Brian Mecham that I wrote, as found above in the preceding post.

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Re: Revelation

Post#9 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:46 pm

I know what it is like to be misunderstood and to be misrepresented in public. Both times that I have been banned from LDS Freedom Forum, I was banned for trying to teach people how to identify the false prophets and anti-Christ's.

As I see it, it is a public service to help people, especially Latter-day Saints, to learn how to tell the difference between the true prophets and the false prophets. Jesus warns us that in the last days there will be false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, lying in wait to deceive. Do you know what that really means? It means that in the last days there will also be true prophets to be found, quoted, and learned from. After the great apostasy is over, there are going to be true prophets again. Our job is to figure out who they are, while at the same time avoiding the false prophets.

That's a message that hasn't gone over well on LDS Freedom Forum and has gotten me banned every time I have tried to share it. Every time that I try to teach the people on LDS Freedom Forum how to detect and avoid false prophets, it gets me banned and the message gets deleted. It kind of gives some of us the impression that such a message is not welcome on LDS Freedom Forum.

I have been deceived by Satan, false prophets, anti-Christ's, and wolves in sheep's clothing many times in the past; so, I tend to be a lot slower now making up my mind.

If you are truly one of the good guys, it might take awhile to win me over to your side, because I'm very cautious now.

If you are truly one of the lost sheep, I will try my best to help you back into the fold, assuming of course that you want to come back. The Latter-day Saints in my ward came and rescued me. I was gone. I was atheist. I was guilty of some serious sins. If I can be rescued, anyone can.

However, if you are one of the wolves in sheep's clothing, we will at some point find ourselves at odds. I have already been down the road to apostasy. I didn't like where that road was taking me, so I decided to turn around and go the other direction. Life is so much better now -- infinitely better. It was hell being on the road to apostasy, being shut out from the Spirit and at odds with God and the Prophets; and, I never want to go back. Been there. Done that. And, I don't want to do it again.

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Re: Revelation

Post#10 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:04 pm

Rule Changes at LDSFF Revealed:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =1&t=39146

Brian Mecham has told me repeatedly the past couple of days that changes are coming at LDSFF that are intended to repair or remove its apostate image.

Brian told me that he is still LDS, still sustains the Apostles, still supports and agrees with the LDS temple recommend questions, and intends to remain LDS for the rest of his life. Brian also told the Snuffers in their forum, and he told me many times in private, that he considers Denver Snuffer to be a false prophet. He didn't buy into Snufferism. He's now publicly distancing himself from the Snuffers. I think he has finally separated himself from Jules' apron strings and her apostasy, which I think was the hardest part for him, because I think they were friends and he was loyal to her and didn't want to ruin the friendship, even after she chose to go to the dark side of the force.

I wish him well. I know what it is like to be out of the church and to try to come back. Many of us have considered Brian to be as far out as anyone can get, so it's kind of nice to see him finally make a public decision or choice as to which side of the fence he is going to try to be on. I hope that he succeeds and passes the test as well.

Time will tell.

Gee, I might even want to post and participate there if it means that I'm not going to be banned for publicly supporting and sustaining the LDS General Authorities and the LDS Church.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =40&t=1800

Addendum:

Brian Mecham wrote the following to me:

The HG Private sub-forum is being closed down - I have already changed the forum rules to reflect that: http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =40&t=1800

I am not and was not apostate but I do recognize some things that got out of hand on LDSFF. Some course corrections are in progress. People are welcome to visit over the coming weeks and see if they feel any improvements have been made to their liking.

Also, I am not going to cater to those who think it is appropriate to ridicule those who are lacking in their testimony in one way or another. Those are the people that we should be helping to answer their questions and lift them up, we should not be criticizing and tearing them apart. I want to foster a safe and respectful environment for discussing legitimate and sincere questions.

Brian Mecham


I, personally, think it is a step in the right direction.

We'll see how it goes.

I have always hated the "secret combination" forums, and I have made it a point to have none on the three different forums that I personally have created. If Brian kills the Heavenly Gift Secret Combination, I think some of us will start to take him seriously.

Darwin Bagley

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