God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

God said: "Let my servant Brigham step forth and receive the full power of the Presiding Priesthood in my Church and kingdom."
Enoch
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God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#1 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:19 pm

God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago, or Did He?:

Many of the disaffected Latter-day Saints that I have encountered in recent years have tried to tell us repeatedly that God stopped speaking to the LDS Apostles when Joseph Smith was martyred, or that God rejected the LDS Apostles and LDS Prophets in 1890 when they caved-in on the polygamy issue. These people then go on to inform us that God has not spoken to any LDS Apostle since the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, or since the 1890 Manifesto. I have been informed by the LDS apostates that God and Christ rejected the LDS Church long ago and that there is no true church and no true prophets on the face of the earth any more. The disaffected, the anti-Christs, and the Korihors in the LDS Church keep telling themselves this satanic lie until they come to believe that it is true.

It’s the same argument that we hear from Christendom and the Protestants in general, that God stopped speaking to man after the Bible was compiled, or after the Primitive Apostles were killed, because God had said all that He needed or wanted to say. They keep telling themselves that God stopped inspiring man or stopped revealing Himself to man, and they keep telling themselves this satanic lie until they come to believe that it is true.

The things I have encountered and have been reading, if believed to be true, indicate quite clearly that these various satanic lies are not true. From what I can see, read, and have experienced, God and the Holy Ghost continues to speak to LDS Bishops and to LDS Apostles, even to this very day. Yes, God might have stopped speaking to me and to you, but all the evidence that I have found tells me that God continues to speak to the LDS Apostles and to many LDS Bishops as well.

Here are some links that expose this satanic lie for the lie that it truly is:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... th_Century

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... th_Century

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... seph_Smith

If you choose to believe that these things are true, then they serve as evidence or proof that God continues to speak to the LDS Apostles even to this very day. These evidences also serve as proof that Christ has not rejected the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the LDS Apostles, and the Latter-day Saints as a whole. God and Christ might have rejected some of us individually due to our rebellion and sin, but Christ continues to see the LDS Church as His Church and the LDS Apostles as His Apostles here on this earth, even to this very day. These evidences or proofs expose the claim, that God stopped speaking to man long ago, for the satanic lie that it really is.

We choose our beliefs. When presented with written evidence, we either choose to believe that the evidence is true, or we choose to believe that it is false. That’s the way that faith works. An atheist makes an even greater leap of faith than a religious theist does. An atheist looks at the written evidence proving God’s existence and then chooses to believe on faith that all of that evidence is false. The Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, and the writings of the LDS Apostles all serve as written evidence that God exists, and that Jesus Christ really did rise from the dead, and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christ’s Church here on this earth right now. An atheist will look at all of this evidence and then choose to believe that the whole thing is false.

There’s another interesting reality here. Some things do not exist until they are “believed into existence” or “chosen into existence”. You literally choose to love your spouse or to love your child. That love does not exist until after you have chosen to love that person. That love does not exist until after it has been believed into existence or chosen into existence. You don’t love someone until after you have decided to love them or chosen to love them.

The same concept applies to faith in God. We choose to believe that God exists, or we choose to believe that God does not exist. It’s a choice. That faith or belief does not exist until after a person chooses it into existence. In contrast, many of the Apostles of Christ were given no choice. They believe because they know for an eye-witness and hands-on fact that Jesus Christ really did rise from the dead and that Jesus Christ really is God. They are operating on knowledge, and not faith, which is a completely different thing. They know that God exists because they have seen Him and touched Him and heard His voice.

From the book, “David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism”, page 38:
Mr. Cook then said he was hesitant about asking his next question, and that he hoped President McKay would understand the spirit in which he was asking – not for part of his story, but strictly from a personal inquiry standpoint, and that he hoped the President would not answer if he did not feel it was a proper question. He then asked President McKay if he had ever seen the Savior. President McKay answered that he had not, but that he had heard His voice – many times – and that he had felt His presence and His influence. . . . Then he told how some evidences were stronger even than that of sight.


From this quote I learned that our Savior Jesus Christ has spoken to David O. McKay many times and had given him witnesses that were stronger than that of sight.

From the book, “David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism”, page 104:
I remember one day that President McKay came into the office. We could see that he was very much distressed. He said, “I’ve had it! I’m not going to do it again!” Somebody said, “What?” He said, “Well, I’m badgered constantly about giving the priesthood to the Negro. I’ve inquired of the Lord repeatedly. The last time I did it was last night. I was told, with no discussion, not to bring the subject up with the Lord again; that the time will come, but it will not be my time, and to leave the subject alone.”

What I learn from this quote is that Christ, our Lord, speaks to the President of His Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I also learn from this quote that the Lord Himself did not want the blacks to have the priesthood at this point in time. These are two things that I personally needed to know; and, I wish that I would have found out about them sooner than I did.

None of us have any way of knowing that God exists, unless God Himself chooses to reveal Himself to us. We can hope and pray that these accounts are true, and take the leap of faith; but, we won’t actually know for ourselves until after God has chosen to reveal Himself to us personally. Meanwhile, these accounts can give us hope that God really is there and give us the hope that someday we too can experience some of the same things that the Apostles of God have experienced.

One of the reasons we are here on this earth behind the veil is to help us develop faith, a hope and a faith that will motivate us to go and find God for ourselves. Just because you haven’t found Him yet cannot serve as proof that He does not exist. Yes, God does not exist for you, yet. But, your lack of experience does not mean that others have not found Him and that He does not exist for them as well. I realized long ago that just because I have never seen God does not serve as evidence or proof that Joseph Smith never saw God the Father and Jesus Christ as Joseph claimed to have done. Others can have these kinds of experiences despite the fact that I have never had these kinds of experiences. Earth-life is a school, where we can learn to do things that we have never done before.

See also:

http://ldssoul.com/god-stopped-speaking ... -long-ago/

Enoch
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Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#2 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:18 pm

I’m starting this forum by presenting the possibility that God might actually exist. Why am I doing this? Well, if God does not exist, then anything else we might discuss on this forum is completely pointless. Religion and faith have no value whatsoever if God does not exist. However, if God does exist and Jesus Christ really did rise from the dead, then these things are of paramount importance to each and every one of us. If God exists, there is no greater thing for us to explore and discuss than the Gospel of Christ and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

learning
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Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#3 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:14 pm

I was glad to hear this about President McKay, I hadn't heard that before.

In light of the essay in 2013 "Race and the Priesthood" https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng it seems that the church is throwing some of the Prophets and Apostles sayings under the bus. I am not an anti- or a dissenter. I am trying to understand the comments of a dozen or more members of the 15 being disregarded as racism and not true revelation or inspiration.

I read a forum post at: http://celestialforum.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8 and it made me wonder how all of those prophets, seers, and revelators could have been so terribly mistaken for over a hundred years about something that Brigham Young was very adamant about.

I can understand the blacks not deserving the Priesthood for a time and them being allowed to receive it later as I was always taught along the way as it all unfolded. Brigham Young testified in the name of Jesus Christ and his words were accepted as revelation. The essay claims that it was nothing more than Brigham being a racist and God never said any such thing.

I would like to hear what anyone here has to say and also invite you to post on the forum above.

MarkMyWords
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Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#4 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:57 pm

In the book, David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism, there is a whole chapter entitled, "Blacks, Civil Rights, and the Priesthood". That Chapter is 46 pages long.

After reading that chapter, it was 100% totally clear to me that God did not want the blacks to have the priesthood until God was ready for them to have the priesthood. Therefore, the whole burden is on God to explain why He didn't want the blacks to have the priesthood for a hundred and fifty years, and why He later changed His mind. The LDS Presidents and the LDS Apostles were simply doing what God had commanded them to do. In all things, all the way along, the LDS General Authorities were doing the Father's will.

When I was a child and a teenager, I hated that the blacks couldn't have the priesthood when I was growing up; but, there were many people in the preceding generation who loved it. After the blacks were given the priesthood, I ran into an elderly LDS Bishop who told me that he hated seeing those filthy darkies in the temple. That generation simply wasn't ready for it.

The Lord had to literally raise up a new generation of Latter-day Saints who were ready and eager for the Blacks to have the priesthood. We were that generation. The previous generation didn't want to have anything to do with it.

Thurl Bailey made this clear in one of his talks or essays:

On their second visit, the missionaries brought their mission president to meet the basketball star [Thurl Bailey]. President Joseph Halvor Clegg was so short that Thurl couldn’t see him behind the missionaries. “I could hardly see him because he was so little,” he said, “but when I shook his hand I felt small.” President Clegg was the fourth man in the chain of good examples that led from Thurl’s father to Dr. J to Thurl’s coach and back to Dr. J – men who influenced Thurl’s path for good.

“His smile was contagious,” Thurl said. I asked him why blacks couldn’t hold the priesthood for all those years, and his smile just got bigger. ‘Father in Heaven wants me to answer you this way,’ he told me. ‘Thurl, it wasn’t time. The blacks weren’t ready. The whites weren’t ready. We’re mortals. We’re not perfect. But you need to know the gospel is perfect.’

“For some reason, that opened something up in me,” Thurl said. I called my wife. ‘I’m gonna be baptized,’ I said. We cried long distance. It was a very expensive cry, I might add.

https://ldsmag.com/article-1-5328/


That I truly believe to be the truth. The blacks weren't ready. The whites weren't ready. The Latter-day Saints weren't ready.

When we were finally ready, the Lord had in place at least 25,000 Black Latter-day Saints in Africa, ready-made congregations waiting to receive the priesthood. When we were all finally ready, God simply turned the key and the whole world went into it in a major way, the Lord's way.

Compared to Babylon, the World, the Latter-day Saints are peanuts, small potatoes. But, for the Latter-day Saints, giving the Blacks the priesthood was earth-shattering, a total paradigm shift, and the Latter-day Saints as a whole had to be ready for it.

Likewise, we are NOT going to go into China until the Chinese are ready for it, and not until we are ready for it. The Lord only puts us into situations when we are ready to handle it. That's the way the Lord works.

MarkMyWords
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Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#5 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:12 pm

I truly believe that Brigham Young was commanded not to give the blacks the priesthood. I believe that God Himself commanded Brigham Young not to give the blacks the priesthood. Therefore, it doesn't matter whether Brigham was racist or not. He was simply doing what God commanded him to do.

Brigham Young was a prophet who received revelations, dreams, visions, and the Voice of God from time to time. If God really wanted to have had the Blacks have the priesthood back then, then God would have told Brigham Young to give the Blacks the priesthood. God would have made a big deal about it back then.

All the way along, the LDS Presidents have done exactly what the Lord has commanded them to do. They have done everything according to the Lord's timetable, not ours.

In every Gospel Dispensation, the Gospel goes to the House of Israel first, the direct descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It's not going to be any different during our Gospel Dispensation. The Gospel, the preaching, the baptism, and the Priesthood (especially the Priesthood) are going to go to the House of Israel first. Joseph Smith was a literal heir to these blessings, a direct descendant from Ephraim, the birthright son. The Gospel and the Priesthood are going to go to the House of Ephraim first, and then to the rest of the House of Israel, and then to the decendants of Abraham, and then to the Gentiles and the Heathen. That's just the way it works.

I truly believe that the Blacks in Africa who joined the LDS Church first were in fact direct descendants of Abraham, and some of them might have even been of the House of Israel. In every Gospel Dispensation, the Gospel is going to go to the House of Israel first, which means that it's going to go to the whites first, because that is what God covenanted with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to do. God is not going to break His own covenants.

If Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would have been black, then the Gospel Restoration would have gone to the Blacks first, because God covenanted with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that their descendants would always get the Gospel first; and then, it would be their responsibility to take the Gospel to the rest of the world. This is what the Priesthood and the Abrahamic Covenant is all about. The descendants of Abraham are going to be the first recipients of the Priesthood and the Abrahamic Covenant, because the Lord promised that it would be so.

learning
Posts: 4

Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#6 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:44 am

I agree. When this question was posted on LDSFF, the core group attacked it immediately with their anti-racist (anti-white) agenda. The thread was so hateful against Brigham that the thread was closed.

Enoch
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Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#7 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:17 am

The thing that some of these people do not realize is that they will never Build Zion through hatred.

Those who have chosen to hate Brigham Young have never read "The Discourses of Brigham Young." Parts of that book feel like scripture. The man is not going to be speaking scripture unless he was ordained unto it.

D&C 68:1-6
1 MY servant, Orson Hyde, was called by his ordination to proclaim the everlasting gospel, by the Spirit of the living God, from people to people, and from land to land, in the congregations of the wicked, in their synagogues, reasoning with and expounding all scriptures unto them.
2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth --
3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.
4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.
5 Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants.
6 Wherefore, be of good cheer, and do not fear, for I the Lord am with you, and will stand by you; and ye shall bear record of me, even Jesus Christ, that I am the Son of the living God, that I was, that I am, and that I am to come.

Unlike some of the apostate prophets or false prophets that surround us, Brigham Young was slow to toot his own horn.

The haters of Brigham Young need to study and learn for themselves that the Lord Himself chose and sustained Brigham Young as Joseph Smith's successor.

http://ldssoul.com/let-my-servant-step-forth/
http://ldssoul.com/let-my-servant-brigh ... tep-forth/

Once I realized that the Lord chose Brigham, sustained Brigham, and backed Brigham, his human weaknesses were much easier for me to overlook; and from then on, I was able to start looking for the times when he spoke while being moved upon by the Holy Ghost to speak.

Haters are unable to do such a thing, because they aren't looking for such a thing.

Isaiah
Posts: 111

Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#8 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:54 pm

I have to deliberately stay away from LDS Freedom Forum, for my own personal peace and spirituality. That place is inappropriately named. It is inhabited by Satan and his followers. The goal of most of the regulars at LDSFF is to destroy the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and to tear down and mock Christ's Apostles.

They do not believe the Church to be true. I learned long ago that if you want to apostatize from the LDS Church, one reason is just as good as any other. The result is the same. Find your reason to leave, and get on with it. The Church will be better off without you.

The dangerous ones are the ones who pretend to be Latter-day Saints but are instead ravening wolves inside of their sheep's clothing. LDSFF is filled to the brim with ravening wolves, lying in wait to deceive you. They pretend to be Latter-day Saints, but they are anti-Christs. The Holy Ghost refuses to back their words, thus telling me that they never speak while moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and therefore, they are false prophets and anti-Christs.

The Holy Ghost is all over the words of the true Apostles of God.

Boyd K. Packer gave a talk decades ago that tells us how to discern between the real thing and the fakes. It's called, "The Candle of the Lord." I put it up here so that I can refer others to it.

viewtopic.php?f=110&t=25

MarkMyWords
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Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#9 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:52 am

It doesn't matter if Brigham Young was racist or not. Brigham Young held all the keys, including the sealing keys, and was the Presiding High Priest of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Brigham held the keys and had the right to make policy.

When it came to giving the blacks the priesthood (or to not give them the priesthood), at some point Brigham Young had to make a decision or a choice. When it came time to make a choice, Brigham Young made the choice that God wanted him to make at the time. If not, the Lord would have come down on Brigham Young like a ton of bricks and gotten Brigham to change his mind.

That's what I truly believe.

I mean, Christ is really at the head of His Church, or He isn't. Which is it?

I believe that Jesus Christ really is at the head of His Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which means that everything that has gone down in that Church, the timing of it all, the policy changes and decisions were ALL the Lord's will. The Lord is at the helm, which means that he sets the direction and the pace.

Enoch
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Re: God Stopped Speaking to Man Long Ago

Post#10 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:13 am

Another piece of information about the blacks and the priesthood is found at this link:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=76


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